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This thing has more power then I will ever need. All Lionel transformer comparisons should include the common 1033, RW, LW, KW and ZW transformers. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. When you get DCS, keep the blocks and run the 2 sets off 2 Fixed channels out. The only time you might not get your full moneys worth is during operation of locomotives equipped with Lionels TMCC or MTHs DCS command-control systems. M3103. As you progress with your layout there are a lot of people here who will help you with any questions you have. Transformers are sized by determining the total load required (in amps). I recently acquired a beautiful Lionel NH Alco 420. A large number of the Lionel Collectors Club UK use this set up to good effect. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. Lionel 1033 90 watt Transformer Postwar from 1950s-60s Whistle, Direction. It is important to remember that the real test of the power supply is the load you'll place on it. Lionel Multi-Car Freight Sets + More MTH Halloween! They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. Ok our layout is 10 x 20 = 200 sq ft x 2 = 400 watts. A 10 amp breaker and 16 gauge wire would be appropriate for an old ZW. The multi-conductor wire is also available. You must be signed in to continue. Lots of good information for building any size O Gauge layout. Lionels HO Gauge items are back! This comes primarily from the locomotive(s) but also from lights and other accessories. And that means theyre affordable. If you're experiencing problems with your wiring due to humidity, for example, you are going to face even greater issues with the trains and tracks themselves. Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. Should it be a Lionel or should it be an MTH with command control? In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. Of course, the answer to that question depends on many things. As time goes on you can add higher wattage bricks one by one. And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. Lionel uses red and black (red always for the center rail, black for the two outer rails) as a standard in its instructions and most 3-Rail O Gauge layouts are probably wired this way. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. They are fun to have. --I wish I had some more cars to put behind the engine. Classic Toy Trains 5-Year Collection 2015-2019 DVD-ROM. Although I am an electrical engineer, I just add stuff until the transformer gets too warm and then I branch off and add another. My question is this in order that this doesn't happen again what type of transformer would you recommend? It is 5" long. Lest I offend, in another plane of existence I was an electronics tech. Tales From Harmon Shops, WTB: LIONEL AUTRORACKS SPECIFICALLY SOUTHERN,GRAND TRUNK,BNSF,FERROMEX. Find 500+ popular train rides, museums, and railroad vacation destinations in the U.S and Canada! If you have a very long run, you may want to consider Number 12 wire. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. Its a good transformer. Take the hint. I cant see you needing more than a capacity of 5 amps. To amplify CTvalley's very valid instructions: A forum community dedicated to model train owners and enthusiasts. Model train transformer- 6 steps to understanding how they work Three conductor wire is common for household use. Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. Also, you wont be able to take advantage of independent control of multiple engines on the same track without a digital controller. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around the entire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. It's expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. They are known as HO train sets because they are half the size of O-guage. A while back, approximately 2 weeks ago while running two very lengthy loops of fast track an old transformer nearly fried (50 years old) one of my wires that I was running to my Fastrac. It has FasTrack connectors on one end and O Gauge track pins on the other. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. New trains; old transformers | Classic Toy Trains Magazine As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. I thought you wanted information related to your layout not operations at a trains show. But after a little while, you will likely want your train to do more, and youll start thinking along these lines: --It sure would be neat if it did more than run in a circle. Beginners Ask Trains New trains; old transformers. They give a great deal of power in a single handled transformer, and if you run trains along with another person, it can be more convenient for you to both have a smaller transformer than for two people to huddle around a larger KW or ZW transformer and share its handles. The same is true for other electronic projects around your layout and inside buildings, train cars, and even locomotives. The Lionel 1033 can be used for small or medium-sized layouts. We're sorry. Lionel 1033 Transformer Renovation Part I - YouTube Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. View More! 12V DC to 120V AC 60Hz pure sine inverter. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. You should always, always test your transformer for safetybefore you set it up, andunplug it when youre not using it. Lionel introduced a few LionChief Plus 2.0 starter sets in 2022. American Flyer Trains Basic Operating Information Not wanting to give up, I experimented with an 80 watt modern Lionel transformer and got great results. Like all electronic products, you want to make sure your power supplies are rated by the appropriate body for your country (UL for example). Some great beginner accessories are the #12052 Fastrack Highway Signal set, which is a set of highway signals that blink as the train goes by. You don't really need a diagram -- you want to pick your interval (some would recommend as often as 3'), drill a hole down through your base, and connect a wire to a bus which runs beneath the layout and connects to your transformer (obviously, you need two wires, one for each powered rail). I think the RW is a bit better value, but that could just be timing. First, a few general notes about choosing wire. What size Lionel transformer do I need? - Tracks-movie.com That could also be the reason the other transformers don't work. Not really a how-to-build-a-layout book, but it is a good general introduction to the hobby full of interesting stuff. Plan on using the KW's for the big layout and 1033's like I did before. Like tankist stated.It's only running multiple engines that I run into issues. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). There is the 12030 Figure-8 set, which along with the track included in your set makes your layout into this: Figure-8s are great because they create a crossing, giving the appearance of a railroad junction, they break up the oval, and the parts to create them are relatively cheap. If you like, tell us more about yourself. What gauge wire is used for Lionel trains? - Sage-Advices Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, Calculating transformer size for layout size. Come join the discussion about brands, various scales, repairs, storage, displays, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! is always one of the first questions asked when someone starts to build a model railroad. What size Lionel transformer do I need? All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. But Lionel now produces four Track Expansion Sets, which expand this basic loop into something more exciting. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. Amazon.com: Lionel O Gauge Transformer A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! Price Received. Are you looking for a product or serviceif so, then read this BEFORE you post! If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. 40-500 50 Watt AC Transformer - 50 Watt AC transformer suitable for . Some systems will use bluetooth technology enabling you to control the trains with your tablet or cell phone. A. I have a post war ZW and a KW and a Z, all three are good transformers, just meant for differant needs. Effort. Are you running command or conventional? Do not use this device if water is present. If you want a spur track to store an extra car or two, Lionel makes another expansion set [#12044] that does just that: Note that this set includes one switch which is the track section that makes the track diverge onto two separate routes. Here at Trainz, we carry all of the products you will need to go from a starter set to a miniature railroad empire. The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. what size lionel transformer do i need. Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. In some cases. Lionel 1033 Transformer Renovation Part I Peter Fenzel 306 subscribers Subscribe 11K views 3 years ago Lionel 1033 Transformer gets cleaned up, a new power cord, a new whistle rectifier. What size Lionel transformer do I need? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. You can use bus and feeder wires to more evenly distribute the power over your track. You have pretty much pointed up the major problem, everything is different. I justhave a very basic 027 set (guessin' mid 80's?). Some DCC systems also recommend solid wire for certain applications. Doug, there's definitely room for the liberal arts approach to the hobby--I have a journalism degree; how I became a computer technician was pretty much an accident. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. The typ miniature incandecents we use average about 100 ma of current each. . Which Lionel transformer do I need? you ask? By creating alternate routes, more complex loops, and storage tracks, your trains will suddenly be even more interesting to watch and they will begin providing you the feeling that they are going somewhere and that you are running a small railroad. That might work, but it's probably borderline, especially if you are using something like a 1033 transformer that tops out at 16 volts. These small power supplies are designed to supply a few amps of power. Over the years I have collected boxed (mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. This is where the Lionel transformer comparisons should begin. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Improve ready-to-run freight cars with a little paint. Lionel Rolling Stock Identification Guide. American Flyer Trains were made in several gauges. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. The Atlas and Bachmann 80 watt transformers, they are one and the same, can be had for around $75.00. Transformers are designed to fail if a short in the secondary or control side occurs. no it isn't. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. Hello, I'm new to this site, and completely new to toy trains also - so please pardon my ignorance! Keep the power supplies in an area where they get plenty of air circulation to prevent overheating. Lionel makes a seemingly infinite number of cars to in a variety of colors, types, and road names. HO gauge is very popular because of its size. Like command control, these trains still require a constant voltage to the rails. Subscribers, sign in to access exclusive content. It would be advantageous if OGR magazine would put an article together comparing the major manufacturers transformers output waveform compatibility/ incompatibilitywith the various manufacturer's locomotives - Atlas O, Weaver, 3rd Rail, MTH , Lionel etc and conventional , DCS , TMCC, Legacy command control. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. If youre comfortable doing some work yourself, you can buy a fixer-upper, and my informational links will tell you more about fixing one yourself. That transformer will only prolly handle 1 engine and depending on how long it is will depend on how many extra feeders you will need around the layout. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. On the flip side, the new transformers do not seem to work as well with the prewar whistle tenders.Has anyone else noticed this anomaly? But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, WELCOME TO THE FORUM Mike!! What is the best transformer to use? - O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum Choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. I am assuming that your starter set came with either o27, brown ties, or 031, black ties, track and it runs well as is. JavaScript is disabled. You may never use all the amps, but it's usually cheaper to grow into a power supply than to continually upgrade. Get the newest photos, videos, stories, and more from Trains.com brands. As far as new transformers go, someone else may be able to help more than I can. For instance, a 100 kilovolt-ampere transformer with 8.32 kilovolts (or less) on the high side has a typical value of 2.6% impedance. This will solve the slowdown problem. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Here are some guidelines for the most common wiring jobs you'll find. I have since wired the new transformer to my layout along with the old ZW. With multiple switches, lights, power supplies and more all concentrated in a small space, color coding and neatness pay off. editors report that most of the wiring issues they address involve basic principles of electricity - the stuff that Ben Franklin played with when he flew his kite. Used a 1033 for accessories and lights. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. Most power supplies will perform very well for years if used within their limits. I'm not sure I completely understand your question. Smaller feeder wires are used to bridge the small gap from the bus to the track. Sign-up for email today! However, if you begin adding more than 1 or 2 cars, be sure to get some extra track, or your longer train will be chasing its tail very quickly. The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. The transition section (#12040) allows you to connect conventional O Gauge track to FasTrack. (Electrical Contractor with dear old Dad for 30 years) Regards Steve. Use this index to see additional details about the individual transformers issued by Lionel during the post-war period. Here are a couple examples: As you can see, with a bit of experimentation and imagination, numerous different track layouts can be created. Power the odd blocks with the other transformer. I have one R transformer from which I run everything - but only 1 train at a time and a few accessories for a layout in a space about 24 by 10 ft. What lionel transformer do i need - Go Quick Qna Hello All: Another simple way of doing it, Only load the transformer to 75% of it's capacity, or take your total load & multiply by 125% for proper transformer sizing. For a transformer less or equal to 500 kilovolt-amperes, a typical %Z impedance may vary between 2.3% and 5.2% based on the voltage level. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. A Passenger consist can easily use more power than the engine. The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. That said, if youre uncomfortable fixing a transformer, I wont look down on you for buying one someone else fixed up. Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers' Henry V. I am a person with a very active inner child. To my knowledge, you should have no compatibility issues with a pure sine wave track feed with any major brand locomotive. For more realistic operation, you need some kind of speed control (throttle) between the 10340 Automatic Reversing Unit and your transformer. If you have the proper wire size and a properly-sized circuit breaker, you should not have any problems using the old transformer. Ive written more about the Lionel ZW here. Also, I found an old guide printed by lionel on power requirements. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. While most of the American Flyer products are re-issues using old Gilbert tooling from the 1950s, the O scale equipment is a combination of new designs and reissues. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. Trainz carries a variety of books that build upon the information listed above. Getting Started - 3 RAIL TRAINS The next evolution in model train control is radio- or bluetooth-controlled trains. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. If youre going to run more than one train, you can pair up two smaller transformers, or you can look at the two-handled transformers. Big Ed Railroad Tycoon Although all Lionel cars operate on O Gauge track, the bodies of the cars are made in two slightly different sizes. $2799. But if you already have a 1034 and dont need a whistle button, go ahead and use it. It was a symbiotic relationship, the engineer designed it and the tech built it, then they both troubleshot it. I have purchased diodes to put into the older transformers to see if this resolves the issue with newer tenders. You can't count on a lack of compatibility issues for one Legacy locomotive being definitive for all Legacy locomotives, for example. These bus wires are often more important than the size of the power supply itself in getting good results. From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. If the second digit is 9, it could be either, so be careful when considering one of them. It is best to use at least two different colors for your track wiring (one for each rail). The KW has constant voltage outputs for accessories, the ZW don't have that feature just four handles for supplying power to four tracks or accessories if you like, both have whistle & direction feature. Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. its the amount of engines you need to worry about, I'm currently running my entire layout on a single DC power supply that came with an Athearn engine/track set. Will get a Z4000 one day [this summer probably, unless I find a good deal on an older ZW] just to say I have one. Add a PW dual motor F3 (4 amps) with 5 lighted cars (another 10 bulbs - 1 amp) and you are cooking (9 amps). I've read that it is good practice to add feeders every 10 sections of track or sothat seems like a lot but I suppose that beats having "dead" spots in the track. With the ever-increasing amount of small electronics in today's sophisticated models, this protection is more important than ever. Amperes = VA/Secondary Volts or 40VA/28V = 1.43 amperes. The Lionel ZW is Lionel's most iconic transformer of the 1950s and 1960s, and perhaps one of its most iconic products, period. If you are wiring with a common rail for your blocks, then keeping the common rail the same color all the time while changing the color for the other rail in each block is also an option. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers for sale | eBay If the voltage drop in the track is more than a small fraction of the transformer voltage, that is, a volt or two, you are going to have trouble running the trains anyway. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Digital command control systems (DCC) uses digital information to control the electrical power to the train. I thought an ENGINEER was the guy driving the train? Lionel developed and perfected its model designs and layouts during the Pre-War Era (1901-1942). Multi-conductor wires with many strands of finer wire are more common for telecommunications and electronics. --I need a station for the train to stop at. Join Today! These systems still require a power supply but it only needs to supply a constant voltage to the rails. Ill try to find a link to it for you. Ive talked more about the KW here. The smaller the number, the larger the wire. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Price Received. If the transformer fails, you most likely have a short or overload somewhere in the control circuit. You can also minimize voltage drop at the rail joints by soldering the rails together. My question is.how big of a transformer will I need to power this thing? I know this has nothing to do with Mike's original problem but is more of a reflection on Trainman's reply. --The O Gauge Railroading Primer, by Christopher Ritchie. And both of them give more wattage per handle than a KW or ZW. Lionel Trains|MTH Train|Lionel Train Sets| HO model Trains| G Scale|Dept 56 In addition to the wire itself, connectors like crimp-on terminals and terminal blocks must also be purchased in larger (and more expensive) sizes. If your layout is bigger than 48, you may actually find trains run a bit better with a KW than with a smaller transformer. Retrofitting a subway line into existing benchwork - and are subway sets still being made? Past,presentand future. Obviously, for a lot of people, the $700 Lionel ZW-L transformer is overkill. A new ZW will run you in the neighborhood of $450.00 or a little less depending on your dealership. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content. * NOTE: We do not recommend loading a transformer above 80% of its KVA rating. Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed. A model railroad train set designed for use in the United States will have a 115V AC 60Hz power requirement. Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198.
